Friday, 14 October 2016

Plan & List of the 2nd Floor of the Winter Palace

Plan & List of the 2nd Floor of the Winter Palace
(clique on plan to enlarge)





Neva Enfilade
192                   Anteroom
191                   Nicholas Hall
190                   Concert Hall
151-153 Pompeian Gallery/Eastern Gallery
152                   Winter Garden
154                   Small Church
155                   Moorish Dining Room
156                   Rotunda
188                   Pompeian Dining Room/White Dining Room
188A                 Pantry
189                   Malachite Hall
Rooms of Empress Alexandra
187                   White Drawing Room/Empire Drawing Room
186                   Crimson Drawing Room/Silver Drawing Room
185                   Study
184                   Bedroom
184A                 On-Duty Maid’s Room
183                   Dressing Room/Boudoir
670                   Bathroom 
182                   Boudoir/NII’s Small Study
181                   Winter Garden/NII’s Private Study
180                   Anteroom/NII’s Valet
179                   Empress’ Dining Room/NII’s Dressing Room
961                   Empress’ Dining Room/NII’s Bath
178                   Empress’ Dining Room/NII’s Gothic Library
177                   Buffet/Billiard
176                   Diamond Room/Reception
175                   Anteroom to Saltykov Staircase
303                   Dark Corridor
3rd Spare – Rooms 157 to 160 - Grand Dukes’ Nikolai & Mikhail/Spare Apartment
157                   Attendant/Dressing Room
158                   Dining Room/Bedroom
159                   Bedroom/Study
160                   Classroom/Drawing Room
Rooms 161 to 166 – Grand Duke Konstantin/Alexander II
161                   Ship Room/Drawing Room
162                   Bedroom/Library
163                   Classroom/Military Library
164                   Valet/Dressing Room
165                   Attendant/Oxygen Room
166                   Staircase
Rooms of Alexander II
174                   Billiard
173                   Reception
172                   Cabinet
171                   Study/Bedroom
170                   Valet
169                   Library
Rooms of Empress Marie Alexandrovna
168                   Dressing Room
345                   Bathroom
307                   Bedroom
306                   Boudoir
305                   Study
304                   Gold Drawing Room
308                   Green Dining Room
289                   White Hall
167                   Small Fieldmarshal Hall
302                   HM Own Staircase Landing
302A                HM Own Staircase Corridor
1st Spare – Rooms of Grand Duchess Maria N. & Duke of Leuchtenberg/Guest Suite
301                   Anteroom
300                   Maria’s Small Study
299                   Maria’s Dressing Room
298                   Bedroom
297                   Duke’s Dressing Room
296                   Maria’s Study
295                   Yellow Drawing Room
294                   Large Drawing Room
293                   Duke’s Salon
292                   Duke’s Drawing Room
291                   Duke’s Study
290                   Duke’s Valet/Wardrobe
Military Halls
288                   Hall of Cuirassiers
287                   1st Military Hall
286                   2nd Military Hall
285                   3rd Military Hall
284                   4th Military Hall
283                   5th Military Hall
2nd Spare – Sons of Alexander II/Guest Suite
281                   Drawing Room
280                   Dining Room/Drawing Room
279                   Drawing Room
278                   Small Cabinet
277                   Bedroom
276                   Study
275                   Large Cabinet
Rooms 268 to 274 – Attendants/Servants/Service Rooms
269 A                Commandant Staircase
State Rooms
282                   Alexander Hall
269                   Anteroom to Large Church
270                   Anteroom to Large Church
271                   Large Church
196                   Picket Hall
197                   Military Gallery
198                   St. George Hall
260                   Apollo Hall
195                   Armorial Hall
194                   Small Throne Room
193                   Fieldmarshal’s Hall
Rooms 143 to 150 – Ministry of the Court
200                   Corridor
201                   Corridor
201A                 Minister of the Court’s Apartment and on 3rd floor
202                   Anteroom to Small Hermitage


24 comments:

  1. These floor plans are amazing! Thankyou so much for posting them and thankyou for all the hard work you have put into doing what you are doing. Finale after soooo long of trying to piece together the floor plan from the pictures of the Interior-drawings prints and paintings I got from the Hermitage website, now thanks to you I have definitive answers to where everything goes. I have so many questions but I'll limit them to only a few. First; Will you post a floor plan of the 3rd floor? Second; do all the fire places match up from floor to floor? and third; room number 345 is the Bathroom but you didn't put it on the plan, would I be right in assuming that the Bathroom is in-between the Bedroom and The Dressing room? Thanking you so much in advance. my puzzle is almost complete.

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  2. Thank you very much. I missed the bathroom! I will fix the plan and list and repost it. Now I have to check my notes as I believe it is #670. I am curious where did you find #345?

    I am posting the 3rd floor today. There are a further two floor plans I will be posting.

    The plan I used is the latest from the Hermitage showing the rooms as of today. It is similar in many ways to c1900 yet there are differences. My forthcoming book will tell the story through the years and the extraordinary amount that remains and being restored beautifully by the Hermitage. I have many floor plans and inventories from 1840 to today - one that is fascinating is from 1931 during the architect Sivkov's renovations.

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  3. I hope I haven't made to much work for you to do. I don't quiet understand your question of "where did I find #345" but I am assuming that you mean how did I work out where it was? well that's a bit of a long story but I'll try to shorten it. Credit goes to you on that, on working out where it was, it was your post about Empress Maria Alexandrova's boudoir that gave me the clue (I'm the anonymous post about liking both versions of the boudoirs and asking about the Green Dining room) I have almost all of Edward Petrovich Hau and other artists pictures of Interiors of the Winter Palace and a detailed 2nd floor plan of the Winter Palace from the mid 19th century from the Hermitage website, it shows what I think (?) is the fire places and I've been matching the pictures to this floor plan in this way and also by identifying them from doors, windows and also by research. It always puzzled me why there were 3 versions of Maria Alexandrova’s Study and placed under three different titles; The Study of Grand Princess Maria Alexandrovna, The Study of Empress Maria Alexandrovna and
    The Raspberry Study of Empress Maria Alexandrovna. It wasn’t until I read your post about the blue boudoir becoming the crimson one that I realised that the rooms must have gone through some changes then I looked at the dates that the different decorated study’s were painted in and surmised that if The Boudoir of Grand Princess Maria Alexandrovna could become The Boudoir of Empress Maria Alexandrovna than so could the title and decorations change for The Study.
    Along with these pictures there is one titled; The Bathroom of Grand Princess Maria Alexandrovna, I assumed that it went with The Study and The Blue Boudoir and it must be apart of Maria Alexandrovna’s rooms, looking at the picture and the floor plan I have, it seemed to match up perfectly with the room between the Bedroom and the Dressing room, I hope this answers your question?
    As there are no detailed floor plans for the 1st and 3rd floors, like the one I have, rooms like The Fourth Reserved Apartment. The Dressing Room and The Large Study of Emperor Nicholas I are hard to place without knowing where the fire places are hence my question if they all lined up from floor to floor, if they do then I can match the pictures to the floor plan.
    Your list of : 14 Study/Nursery Living Room
    15 Bedroom
    16 Study/Boudoir/Bedroom
    19 Salon
    20 Cabinet
    21 Drawing Room
    22. Salon
    don’t match the names of the picture titles which are: The Fourth Reserved Apartment. The Corner Room, The Fourth Reserved Apartment. The Study, The Fourth Reserved Apartment. A Bedroom, The Fourth Reserved Apartment. The Dressing Room (coloured purple), The Fourth Reserved Apartment. The Dressing Room (coloured pink), The Fourth Reserved Apartment. A Corridor.
    This is by no means a criticism of your work, I probable don’t have enough information to work it out properly (help!).
    I cant wait for you up coming book and I hope it will be sold in all the major book stores. Thankyou for posting the 3rd floor plan and replying to me, I look forward to seeing what other floor plans you are going to post. The Place is a beautiful building, inside and out, then and now and I have enjoyed studying it, even if it is only for my own personal interest.
    Whew!, so much for short story, again, thanking you in advance.

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  4. I am very grateful for your comments. Many many thanks. I do hope you continue to comment as it will help the research and fix my mistakes.
    I had thought the bathroom you wrote of that I had missed on the plan was Alexandra’s. And I did forget to number it! It is #670. I will be uploading a revised floor plan for the 2nd floor this weekend. I also noted that I had missed a telegraph room number on the 1st floor. I am thrilled you had found the error for it gives me an opportunity to fix and revise. I look at so many plans and numbers, I am dizzy!
    You were right on #345, the bathroom! Many many thanks for noting it. I had missed again that number. For years I gave it my own number 168A as it was next to Empress Marie’s dressing room. At some point I came across a document with the number 345. It is weird as Alexandra’s bathroom is 670, Nicholas II’s bath is 900. Very odd numbers that do not flow with the layout and then realized that they were service rooms, interior rooms, etc.
    I am using the current Hermitage plans and numbering for easy use by visitors to the palace. I do not know when these numbers began, if after the renovations by Sivkov. The 1930s plans have different numbers and prior to 1917, it is even worse to discover. The spares are standard yet in 1850s the Minister of the Court decided to change the numbers of the spares and names. It was never accepted by all and so reverted back to the old names.
    It is difficult to match fireplaces in the old plans with today’s plan as Sivkov removed most of them in the 1930s. Doors were closed up, new doors made, so there are discrepancies but the basics are still there, and imagining the rooms is a dream.
    The 1st floor is confusing. I have tried to use the / to show how the rooms were used in the different decades, i.e. GD Olga’s study #14 in 1840 became the corner drawing room in 1850s (used as spare apartment for family/guests) and then the nursery living room in 1896 for the children of Nicholas II. I was trying to make the list simple to follow and my book will describe the different periods, uses in detail.
    The 3rd floor though was difficult. The Freylinsky corridor is totally changed, opened for exhibition space. And the numbering is confusing – Mme Geringer’s is #19 to 21 (I describe the rooms in detail in my book).
    I hope this helps you. Please write me more of your thoughts as I am deeply interested for your help and ideas.

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  5. You are very, very welcome! I had a very rotten day yesterday and seeing your reply really made my day, so thanks. I should give you a name you can recognise me by, I usually go by Ghostie. Ahhh confusion on both sides and I missed Alexandra’s bathroom as well but I did know where that was from Hau’s picture of the 1st Alexandra’s bathroom but I don’t think it remained a bathroom in Nicholas II and Alexandra’s time? I look forward to seeing the revised plan. Have a re-look at the 3rd floor too, rooms #334 to #349 are not on the list, you only mention the bathroom and the toilet, I think from memory the rooms were for the ladies in waiting? and 354 to 256 Apartment (Baron Schilling/children of Katia & Alexander II) the 256 should be 356? (if I am any way wrong or have read it wrong, disregard this)
    And I can well imagine that looking at all those numbers would make you dizzy, especially when they change over time. Your list is simple to follow, there is no worries with that and I managed to work out the other night that #11 Anteroom to Children’s Rooms is: The Fourth Reserved Apartment. A Corridor. I think I just need to go back over it and get the dates that the pictures where painted in, which I don’t have at the moment. My intention was to create a 1st and 3rd floor plan from the 2nd floor plan that I have but if Sivkov removed most of the fire palaces I might have to re-think that idea. Why was there never a detailed floor plan done of the 1st and 3rd drawn up like the one of the 2nd (sorry I have to keep correcting myself from saying; ground floor, 1st and 2nd, so if I say 1st floor to you it’ll mean 2nd floor) or maybe I’ve just never come across any.
    Floor plans aside, I saw something the other day, its in relation to Domenichino’s painting of St John the Evangelist hanging on the wall of Empress Marie’s Boudoir. I swear I saw it hanging on the wall of Hau’s picture of The Large Drawing-Room of Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna, its only small but it has the exact same look! If it is, would this be a joke on Hau’s behalf or was the painting hanging in Alexandra the 1st Large Drawing-Room at some stage?
    Another question is; I saw a black and white photograph of Empress Maria Alexandrovna bedroom the other week and it looked like it did in Hau’s painting, so it made me wonder if anyone occupied her rooms after she died or did were they kept persevered?
    I have to say I am really flattered that you are interested in my help and my ideas especially when you have twenty years of research on me, but I’ll endeavourer to help where I can and I’ll probable pop up with questions from time to time, I don’t wish to bombard you.
    Happy researching, Ghostie.

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  6. Hey Joanna,
    I wanted to get this off to you before you re-post the 2nd floor plan again this week. I was looking over the floor plans again last night after I posted my reply yesterday and realised I missed something else; #302 HM Own Staircase is in the wrong spot,
    #302 should be; The Room between the Small Fieldmarshals Hall and the War Gallery. and the empty spot next to #298 should be; The Room and the Landing of HM Own Staircase. #302 should be next to and left of The Room and the Landing of HM Own Staircase.
    I hope this helps.
    Ghostie.

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  7. Many many thanks Ghostie. I am incorporating your corrections in the lists and plans. I will put off uploading the revised plans until I fix my errors until Tuesday or Wednesday. I have to look closely at the 3rd floor again. I am not sure yet if I should call Freylinsky, Maids of Honor Corridor (which is the designation in Russian documents) or the more familiar English of Ladies in Waiting.

    The bathroom of the first Alexandra in 1840s #670 was still used as a bathroom by Nicholas II's Alexandra in 1896. It was completely renovated and is still the same today. I have a slew of photographs of it. It's amazing to see the tiles, the walls, the fireplace - even the door to the staircase is the same as when Alexandra lived there.

    There are many plans of the 1st and 3rd floors, even showing the ceilings, from the 1840 to 1930s and today.

    Please pop up with all your questions. I love them.
    Joanna

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  8. You are right on Domenichino’s painting of St John the Evangelist. After the death of Alexandra, some paintings were moved to Empress Marie's rooms. Also Nicholas I had copies made of Hermitage paintings for his Alexandra to hang in her rooms of the various palaces. I detail it all in my book.

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  9. On your question of Marie's bedroom: I saw a black and white photograph of Empress Maria Alexandrovna bedroom the other week and it looked like it did in Hau’s painting, so it made me wonder if anyone occupied her rooms after she died or did were they kept persevered?

    The rooms were preserved - I detail it in my book with archival material. In 1926 when the historical rooms of Nicholas II, Alexander II, etc were disbanded, the Empress' rooms were maintained as they were to be used by a visitor to Leningrad, the King of Afghanistan. That is why they preserved to today in great detail. I do think though that most of the other rooms are similar to what they were when the Imperial Family lived there. Exhibition space was required so they completely broke up the Freylinsky corridor. That was a hodgepodge of poky rooms! Also the mezzanines needed to be removed and has shown us beautiful ceilings, Rastrelli Gallery that even Nicholas II never knew what it should look like!

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  10. Hi Joanna.
    Saw all the corrections you made to the 2nd floor and I now under The Freylinsky Corridor and it truly was a maze and a hodgepodge of poky rooms! I like that you included the 1900’s floor plan with the 2016 ones so the differences can be seen. I don't know why, but I had it in my head that The Freylinsky Corridor was the corridor above The Dark Corridor, I've learnt something new this week. One more correction #670 needs to be added to the list (ducks for cover)
    About the bathroom of 1896, one of the photos with a women named Sandra in the boudoir of Alexandra’s, shows a door behind her and there are people sitting in the bathroom? This was why I thought it was no longer a bathroom by Nicholas II and Alexandra's time, is there a mirror next to the door?
    On the plans, where could I find plans of the 1st and 3rd floors like the detailed 2nd floor plan of the Winter Palace from the mid 19th century, I would really, really love to see some of those and perhaps to get my little hands on them :)
    I had thoughts of perhaps Empress Maria, Alexander III wife might have used Empress Maria Alexandrova’s rooms but I read some where that Alexander III didn't like living at The Winter Palace but I didn't expect the King of Afghanistan to have used them on a visit, gee half his luck, I would have love to have stayed in them!
    I can’t believe they would cover up such things, I understand the need for the mezzanines but Rastrelli’s work was/is beautiful, will you post a picture of the then and now?
    Thankyou, its always very nice to see your replies and I do have many, many more questions.
    Ghostie.

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  11. Get out from under the cover! You are superb. Many many thanks. I have updated 670!

    The photo of Sandra in the boudoir does show the door to the bathroom (it is no longer there). The people that you see are a reflection of the large mirror that Alexandra had in the far corner - the reflection shows her vanity table under the window. The door had led into the bathroom. In the bathroom there is a door on the left that leads to a narrow staircase - that is the door that has the mirror.

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  12. Empress Marie, wife of Alexander II, used his grandmother's rooms, Empress Alexandra, wife of Nicholas I to change clothes for Winter Palace balls, etc. It was rare for them to sleep in the Winter Palace but when they did, they used the bedroom.

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  13. I checked the plans and the Hermitage has 302 where I had had it. But I also looked at the first plan with numbering c1920s and they have two numbers - one for the staircase landing and one for the connecting corridor. I decided to use 302 for the landing and 302A for that corridor. I need to walk through the palace to confirm my numbering to coincide with my book descriptions for visitors to envision the palace late 1800s and early 1900s.

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  14. I remember I had posted a photo of the Rastrelli Corridor when they were dismantling the mezzanines (I have to look back at my blog posts to find it again!). I need though to take my own photograph of the Gallery today with the ceiling as it is used for cafes, etc.

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  15. I don't have a scanner (it broke, darn) and use anothers at the moment. I have to figure out how to include a blog post with plans c1900 of the 1st and 3rd floor and the basement.

    Are you on the Alexander Palace Forum? If so, can you send me a message (I am Joanna) with your email. I will try to do a scan for you.

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  16. Hi Joanna.
    Our weather is just as bad! We get a couple of nice days of 24 or 25 °C with maybe a north wind and then it turns cold again and we are back down to 12°C, it was 5°C over night.
    Thankyou, I didn’t want you to think I was being overly picky about the list and with #302 I’m just going by what I see on the plan I have. I had a look at The Indoor Map of The Hermitage this afternoon and it has #308 over the stairs, if that is of any help?
    A mirror! Well that answers that, very interesting. I like that there was all these hidden dors and staircases within the Palace. Love the photos of the palace in snow, snow almost seems to make things just a little bit magical, well to me it dose, anyway.
    Grr! Why do devices always seem to break down when you want to use them, my printer did that to me and I had to get a new one. Time to buy a new scanner?
    I’m not on Alexander Palace Forum, though I have ghosted around it, as a general rule I stay out of chat rooms, face book and all those, (here has been the exception) but thankyou for the offer, that’s very kind of you :). A blog post with the 1st 3rd and the basement plans from c1900s would be fantastic! if it can be done it would be really, really interesting to see.
    Gostie.

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  17. That is weird. #308 is the Green Dining Room. There had been a staircase there in 1840 but was dismantled for the dining room in 1850s.

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  18. You are not wrong. I've one plan that says #308 is The Green Dining Room & one that says the Stairs are #308. What the..? I am very confused.

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  19. There was two rooms in the palace that I wanted to ask you about; one is called The room with the bay window, where was it? and the other is The Diamond room and was it anything like the Amber room in Catherine's palace? Thanking you in advance
    Ghostie.

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  20. I use the Russian name - there are many variations in the archive documents - so I had to think where is a bay window! Then I realized what you meant. I can do a post on it soon - there were two - the doors remain though.

    The Diamond room was not like the Amber room. It was their storage room for the Court Jewels i.e. crowns etc that had to be signed out/in and were transferred for example to Moscow for coronations. Empresses would also maintain their own jewels in cases in their rooms or a separate personal 'diamond' room. Storage for furs, porcelain, Faberge presentation gifts, etc were held in storage rooms at Anichkov.

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  21. Sorry I should have been a bit more specific :(.A post would be great, thank you that would be very interesting. Until your floor plan I had no idea there was a room(s) called the Diamond room, I must admit I kind of had this picture in my head of a room decorated in diamonds and much like the Amber room would've been worth seeing if it existed. Dreams......
    Ghostie

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  22. sorry to ask a dumb question, I find all the plans awesome. One minor question, I understand that the Imperial family used the White Dining room as their dining room, how did they normally get to it as it seems totally unconnected to the private rooms?

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  23. Never dumb as I need and love your questions. It helps me clarify, change or search for more info. The White dining room formerly Pompeian dining room, had four entrances - from the Moorish Dining Room, Malachite Hall, and 2 small doors to the service room and staircase (still there). Also a door led to these service rooms/staircase from Empress Alexandra's drawing room in 1896 that was not there in 1840!

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    Replies
    1. thank you makes sense now

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